The Two Piers Podcast
The Two Piers Podcast
Finding Support in Industry Organizations - with Attorney Liz Nielsen
Attorney Liz Nielsen has guided hundreds of families through the estate planning process, serving as their trusted advisor to bring peace of mind to their lives. She is the founder of Nielsen Law, a small estate planning law firm in Austin, Texas. Liz is Board Certified in Estate Planning and Probate Law by the Texas Board of Legal Specialization. She practices exclusively in the areas of estate planning, special needs planning, and estate administration.
Liz is also President of the Travis County Women Lawyers Association. Giving back to the Austin community is very important to Liz. TCWLA is a nonprofit organization that is committed to supporting issues affecting women both as lawyers and as members of society. Liz is also Board Vice Chair/President-Elect of AGE of Central Texas, a nonprofit organization that helps older adults and their caregivers thrive as they navigate the realities and opportunities of aging and caregiving.
In this episode, Liz shares some of the ways that industry organizations such as TCWLA are supporting working professionals and advancing opportunities and change. She also shares her insights on what to look for when considering whether to join an organization and how to get the most benefit from your participation. Lastly, Liz shares some insights into the work she does in helping individuals and families through estate planning. She busts some myths about who this planning applies to and what it entails.
Hello and welcome to the Two Piers podcast. I'm your host Erica D'Eramo. And today we have attorney Liz Nielsen joining us. So Liz has guided hundreds of families through the estate planning process served as their trusted advisor to bring peace of mind to their lives, and she is the founder of Nielsen Law, a small estate planning firm in Austin, Texas. Liz is board certified in estate planning and probate Law by the Texas Board of Legal Specialization. She practices exclusively in the areas of state planning, special needs planning and estate administration. Liz also happens to be the president of The Travis County Women's Lawyers Association. Giving back to the Austin community is very important to Liz and TCWA as nonprofit organization is committed to supporting issues affecting women both as lawyers and as members of society. Liz is also board vice chair, President Elect of Age of Central Texas, a nonprofit organization that helps older adults and their caregivers thrive as they navigate the realities and opportunities of aging and caregiving. And on today's episode, we'll be talking about all things professional organizations, how they can help how they can support in a little bit as well about what we should be thinking about in terms of estate planning, and particularly for folks who maybe didn't think that they needed to consider things like estate planning. So we're really happy to have Liz on this episode to cover some of the topics that we could learn a bit more about. Liz, thank you so much for joining the episode. We're so happy to have you.
Liz Nielsen:Thanks, Erica. I'm really excited to be here.
Erica D'Eramo:So this is kind of my classic question that I asked everyone. But what would you say your like origin story is like, tell us about about yourself and how you got ended up getting into this work?
Liz Nielsen:Sure. So gosh, I don't think anybody grows up and says, Gosh, I really want to be an estate planning and probate lawyer when I grew up. You know, I certainly didn't, I had lots of things that I wanted to be. But I don't even think being a lawyer was one of the things that I thought about when I was growing up. I grew up in the suburbs of Chicago, when I went to college, I really wanted to study like environmental science, and wanted to be like a forest ranger when I grew up. But of course, I went to college in New York City, the exact opposite of where someone would go if you wanted to be a forest ranger. And I went to Barnard College, which was an all women college that's associated with Columbia University. And while I was there, I actually got really into human rights. And so I worked at an NGO at the United Nations with an internship there. And this was back in the early 2000s. And so I was really able to participate in things at the UN such as hearings about the genocide in Darfur, which was really sad, but also observed discussions with the Commission on the Status of Women and talking about the Millennium Development Goals. And so I got really into sort of human rights. And as I was looking at it, I also realized, gosh, we've got a lot of things here in the United States that we could work on. And so I decided to go to law school, mostly because I graduated with degrees in psychology and religion, with a concentration in human rights. And really, the only thing you can do with that is go to graduate school. So I decided to go to law school thinking I would study like constitutional law and civil rights law. And so I went to the University of Texas School of Law. And one of my first classes there, I think, like most first year law students was constitutional law. And I was surprised to learn that that turned out to not be my favorite class. I really like contracts. And I like tax law, way more than my civil rights and constitutional law classes. So that was very surprising to me my first year. So then I took a class on wills and estates my second year, and at the same time, I was taking that class, my grandmother had been diagnosed with dementia. And so I was kind of learning the legal side, which is very much just reading cases not looking at a single Will or Trust, but then also helping my family navigate my grandmother's dementia and their legal documents. And it was really interesting seeing firsthand just how much of a difference the planning can make on a family. And my grandparents had set up the super complicated a state plan. And my grandfather in the last years of his life, he was really, I guess, stressed about the plan. He didn't have Understand it. And he didn't understand sort of how the components work together. And it seemed like his attorney just hadn't ever described it to him in a way that he could understand. And my grandfather, he was super smart. He was a PhD physicist, but still like, couldn't understand it. So one of my favorite things about doing estate planning and probate is that I'm actually, you know, really helping people. And kind of an unusual way, because I don't think people think about, oh, gosh, planning for what's going to happen when I'm incapacitated, or when I pass away, you don't think about that. It's like, really helping, but it is like, it's really like, one of the few areas of law where I'm working with people who aren't fighting with each other. I'm working with people who are just planning for the future. And I just really, I really love it. But at the same time, I also try to stay very involved in the community. So that's one of the reasons why I ended up joining the Travis County Women Lawyers Association when I was a young baby lawyer, and have continued to be involved for for so many years. Yeah,
Erica D'Eramo:I think that one of the things that drew me to reach out to you about being on the podcast was I just watching some of the materials that you share has really helped me understand that, like estate planning, we think of as something that rich people do, or something that only the super privileged and wealthy do. And I've been learning so much more about how actually, for many people this is this is something that a doesn't get talked about, especially in families that, you know, maybe didn't have this, as part of growing up, this was never something that was discussed. But then it can affect really anyone, regardless of you know, their their current view on assets or, or wealth. So I think that this is a message that I did want to get out there in terms of, you know, underserved communities, historically marginalized communities that maybe don't even or even just like first generation, folks who are now you know, going to university in establishing wealth themselves that they didn't grow up with a vocabulary around this. And they would never think, oh, I should maybe talk to someone about estate planning, because the language, even in and of itself, is state, it sounds like in my brain, I think mansion, right? Oh, I don't have a mansion. I don't need to worry about that. But tell us a little bit more about that. Like, what do you encounter in terms of familiarity with this concept?
Liz Nielsen:Yeah, I mean, I think probably a lot of people were like me, or I had really put no thought into estate planning at all until I was in law school. And I think that's true, I think, you know, there's a lot of disparity in our country. And between who's kind of talking about this and who's not. And I think some of it is age, I think when you're younger people think, Gosh, I don't need an estate plan, I don't need to worry about those things. And, you know, it's not it's not true. I mean, I think especially if you're younger, if you have really any assets, like if you have a bank account, or you have a car, like you have something to think about, and you might not need a big fancy estate plan, but there's certainly planning that you need to do. And I think as people get older, maybe they see their family members pass away, or they see, you know, their friends pass away, and they realize, gosh, it really can end up being a huge mess. If things are not planned for correctly. I actually had a client, email me today, sort of a little Client Testimonial, and she started out with saying, I don't think there's a beneficiary or an executor out there who says that they wish so and so didn't have an updated the state plan. I think that it's just one of those things that really, you know, everybody needs, and it's not so much related to the size of the estate.
Erica D'Eramo:Yeah. I also think that we can't necessarily predict when we will end up being involved in one of these conversations or, you know, named as a person who is suddenly taken care of, of these types of things. Absolutely.
Liz Nielsen:And I think, you know, a lot of times people think of estate planning too, as just being you know, your will just what happens when you pass away. But a really big part of estate planning is planning for incapacity. So like, you know, who will help with your finances if you can't, who will make medical decisions if you're in a coma? Do you want to be kept on life support forever. A lot of people are surprised the Terri Schiavo case, which I remember from when I was young, but she was, you know, in a persistent vegetative state and the doctors knew she wasn't going to recover and there was a big fight between her parents and her husband about what she would want. And a lot of times we were really surprised she was only like, 30 years old, like she was really young. And so I think, realizing that gosh, you need to do this planning. You know, and make some of these hard decisions, I think starting when you're when you're pretty young. Yeah,
Erica D'Eramo:yeah, I remember that case. And then I also remember the, you're wrong about episode, the podcast episode explaining it. And I think a lot of people, the media latched on to that case, and people didn't really understand all the details behind it. But yeah, that's Okay. A lot of us can can remember. So tell us a little bit more about T CW LA, and what brought you to either get involved there or seek them out and a little bit about how that role has evolved for you?
Liz Nielsen:Sure. So, you know, T CWA has been, you know, around for a long time, just like a lot of I think women professional organizations, it was started in the 70s. You know, with just a few women, there weren't a lot of women lawyers who are practicing back then. But, you know, of the starting members, the founding members of the organization, a lot of them ended up becoming judges and really having a big impact on Texas legal history. And I don't know if everybody knows this to Travis County is in Austin, Texas, which is the capital of Texas. And so they really have been able to have a pretty big effect on some of the laws and just sort of have the culture of how women are integrated into the the legal community in in Texas. And, you know, it started out with they had to do a lot of, you know, really boots on the ground advocacy in Austin. And this is I think, true. Maybe in a lot of cities, we have a lot of kind of, like professional social clubs. We have the UT club and headliners club and all these clubs, and they are really a place where people will go and have lunch and do networking. And, you know, for a long time, women were not even allowed to go into these clubs and TCL LA was really involved with sort of allowing women just to be physically in the room.
Erica D'Eramo:Not even that long ago, right? I mean, we're no, no,
Liz Nielsen:this is like in the 80s. Like, really? Not that long ago. Right. And so, you know, I think back then, like, there was just very clear discrimination, right? It was just, you saw it, you know, in the courtroom, in the law firms in the government, like there was just very clear discrimination. And organizations like the Travis County Women Lawyers Association, were really able to advocate for women. And I think now, you know, things have changed. Right? I think that the discrimination is not as obvious. I guess, it's more like micro aggressions against women. For instance, I think one of the things that I hear a lot, and it's that, you know, if you walk into the clerk's office, and you're a woman, they might be more likely to assume that you're a paralegal than that you're a lawyer. I mean, those things I get still true in a way that, you know, it's small things like I get called Honey and Sweetie by older lawyers, all the time. Goodness, which is I think, you know, it's strange. And I think, I think by having groups like, you know, the Travis County, Women Lawyers Association, and these women, professional organizations, you can talk to other women and realize, oh, my gosh, it's not just me, I'm not crazy, like these things are still happening, and then talk about, Okay, how do you address them? How do you stand up for yourself? In which situations? Do you stand up for yourself? And which situations, do you not? And I think, you know, kind of navigating that, you know, constant maze of what, when do you stand up for yourself? And when do you not is something that by talking to other women, it really helps, I think, yeah, it helps to address those situations correctly. And, you know, I'm a white woman, I think, if you're a woman of color, it's even harder. And I think these groups like tcma are even more important to have that community where you can have a safe place to talk about it.
Erica D'Eramo:And I think to the it's even beyond the like, when do we speak up and when do we not and I love that this is not a given that we all just need to clean our place and speak our minds because we know that many of us particularly women of color will suffer more consequences for that than than people who are in the quote in group but also the most effective ways to do that, as well and like learning from what other people have tried and what has worked and what has been effective for them and what has not been effective for them so that we can hopefully pass some of those learnings around.
Liz Nielsen:Yeah. You know, what causes someone to decide to join a group like TC why so I joined it, you know, when I was when I was a younger, much younger lawyer. And you know for lots Two reasons. One, I had a friend who was really involved, and she invited me. And I think that really makes a big difference when you have, you know, somebody that you know, already there and you're not like just standing in the corner of the room. I'm an introvert. So going to, you know, networking events and things like that. It's not my favorite thing. And so that's one of the I found really great about TC FBLA is that, you know, people, if they see someone just standing there, people will come up and talk to them and ask him, How long have you been involved? What kind of law do you practice, like, we have a lot in common. So we're able to kind of quickly get to know people and have them feel like they're there in the right place. And they're with people that, you know, they can be, you know, authentic and real with. And I stayed involved, I think, you know, for lots of reasons. But, you know, part of it was just there was a lot of different types of activities, that T sail, who was doing, it wasn't just, you know, these networking mixers, but it was also legal education, they have a book club, they have a mentoring program, like a really formal mentoring program that I think is just really an amazing resource that not a lot of people. Not a lot of women have that opportunity to have a very formal mentoring relationship with a woman who has, you know, been there before. And I think that's just an incredibly helpful program on both sides. I think as a mentor, you learn a lot to get as much out of it as the mentee does. And so yeah, and I've just stayed involved. And I've just been, I don't know, I just feels like a place where I fit in where I'm able to grow, where I'm able to talk about things that are hard, but also just talk about, you know, our kids, or, you know, how we figure out how to make lunch every day, whatever it is, it's human parts that yeah, the human parts. Exactly.
Erica D'Eramo:So one of the things that I love that you've mentioned, is that you're an introvert. And that's important to me as a fellow introvert, because I think that sometimes it can be quite daunting to sign up to go to these events, especially when they're characterized as mixers, or meet and greets. Like, for me, that can be pretty challenging, even though I'm not shy, but they can be quite draining or just daunting. So tell me a little bit more about like, what advice would you have for other introverts who maybe feel like they could use some community, but the idea of going to a mixer or even reaching out to an organization is just a little like one step too far?
Liz Nielsen:Yeah, I mean, I think one thing that has really worked for me is just finding other people to either go with me or who are already part of the group. So that's really good. Actually, I went to a new estate planning group a couple of weeks ago. And I realized that a financial advisor that I knew she was also going for the first time, so we arranged to, you know, get there at the same time and sit by each other. And that made it just a lot easier for me. But I think also like going to groups that you think are going where there are going to be people who are like minded is helpful. So for me going to an event with a group of estate planning attorneys is usually a whole lot easier than if I'm gonna go to like the family law meet and greet, which are divorce attorneys, which I don't do it can be, might be good for me professionally, but not not as comfortable of a space for me. Yeah, and then one of the things that I do, and this is why I get involved in so many organizations is actually like, getting involved help. So if I am in charge of signing people in, right, if I have some kind of a job at the event, I find it a lot easier for me. Yeah, so yeah, I often try to sign sign up to be like the person that greets people when they come in, or I help arrange the food or whatever it is, but it helps if I have I have a job. Yeah,
Erica D'Eramo:that that's really interesting, actually, what an insight and it explains to me why I am an introvert who loves hosting dinner parties, because I'm always like, in the kitchen, chopping veggies or whatever, but I'm in the vicinity of the action. So listen, and kind of pop in as I want. But I don't have to be talking the whole time. Yeah,
Liz Nielsen:yeah. Yeah, for sure. I feel the same way. Yeah,
Erica D'Eramo:yeah. So what, in terms of you know, you mentioned Texas, I think for any of our listeners that aren't in Texas, or aren't familiar with Texas, there's a lot of misconceptions. Like I hear folks who are surprised when I mentioned that, you know, Houston is one of the most diverse cities in the country, if not the most diversity in the country. So what is the diversity look like amongst the women's law associations that you're a part of Yeah,
Liz Nielsen:I mean, I think diversity is an issue in the law, I think there's a lot of things that make it more difficult from the very beginning, even in law school for people of color to be successful and to want to graduate and then to want to practice law. I think it's really, it's difficult. And I don't know if it's getting better or not. I know that just amongst the lawyers, I know, there's very, very little diversity. If I want to refer a client to a estate planning attorney who speaks Spanish, like I know, too, and there's, you know, hundreds of estate planning attorneys in Austin. And so I think that, that diversity is it's lacking. And I think, you know, groups like TC who probably can help with that by providing that mentorship that will hopefully help people stay in the profession. So I think a big problem is that people will graduate from law school, even women, right that women are way more than half of all law school graduates right now. But they're much more likely to stop practicing, or to never even enter the field at all after graduating law school. And I think that's, it's a huge problem. And I don't I don't know all of the solutions. But I think mentorship I think, talking about it, I'm sure, you know, having di committees at law firms, helps to a certain extent. But I think it has to start early. I think probably even in law school addressing the issues. Yeah. And I don't know about how it is in Houston. But in Austin, Austin is a very segregated city. Maybe the one of the most segregated cities, I think in the country. Yeah. And I think that really affects the opportunities as well.
Erica D'Eramo:Yeah, I, I don't know, in terms of the different cities in Texas, what that looks like. I think that has been my own perception as well. Austin seems to have like the extremes and a big gap in between, like that disparity seems.
Liz Nielsen:Yeah, I think it's surprising considering Austin's so one of the most liberal cities in Texas.
Erica D'Eramo:Yeah, yeah. So what would your advice be for folks that are looking to join a professional network? Like, what should they be considering when they're trying to find that community?
Liz Nielsen:Yeah, so we've talked about this a little bit already. But I think finding, finding groups that seem relevant to what you do and what it is you're looking maybe to learn more about, or what your kind of what your interests are. And then I'd also look at, like, kind of what are the types of activities, I think some groups are more, you know, more networking, like, really, that's the focus or, you know, building a client base, I think others are more focused on education, whether, you know, in the legal area, there's a lot of continuing legal education that different professional organizations provide. And for some people, that's very important, and for others, it's not as important. But then I think third is just, you know, is the group welcoming, I think that says a lot about the group. If they are welcoming, they people come up and talk to you. And when you go to an event. I think that that's really important. I think that's something to keep in mind, if you're a part of a professional organization, right is to go and welcome new members, or if there's a face, you don't recognize, go up and say hi to somebody, introduce them to others in the group that you think you know, it'd be good for them to talk to you, I'm always trying to connect people to, you know, be like, oh, you know, focus on international law, so and so Oh, so does that or whatever, I think is really helpful. And then, you know, asking people to come back, like being really intentional about it. I think that really makes it a lot more likely that someone's gonna going to come back if they know that they're invited back. Yeah,
Erica D'Eramo:that all that all makes a lot of sense. There is this consistent kind of theme that I've been coming across lately, and I've written about it, actually, extensively, I'll probably do a podcast episode on it. But this idea that women don't support other women, or that we're all like in competition with each other. And so I sometimes wonder if the idea of like a women's professional group, how, like, how do you counter that narrative in a women's professional group? Or do you come across anyone being concerned about seeing women as competition, especially in a field where you mentioned that, you know, pull through and is a challenge and there's a lot of attrition. And so, you know, the fewer people you have of that group, the more likely that they sort of get pitted against each other for the one spa or the, you know, seen as a sort of a monolith, at least at least that's what we're seeing. Yeah,
Liz Nielsen:I mean, I think, yeah, I think that groups like T CWA really can help combat that to a certain extent. You know, I think it very much used to be I think, in law, right. But gosh, there's one spot for a woman at the you know, as an equity partner, or as a judge, you know, in a certain type of court. And I think that's changed a lot. in Travis County, for instance, we now have, we have 12 civil district judges. And in the last cycle, we now have 12 women, district judges, and many of them are members of TC why some of them have been very, very active as well. And I think that's not a surprise. I think it's this idea of lifting everybody up as opposed to just yourself. And, you know, I think that you I think you mentioned the idea of you no lifting the ladder up, right, once you get up to the top. And I think that's changed, I think now, you know, at least here in Travis County, or with the Travis County Women Lawyers Association, right. It's not even a ladder, right. Like we're helping to build a staircase up. And we're not all the way there. Don't get me wrong. But I think I think by working together, we're a lot more likely to get there. Makes me think of I think was Sandra Day O'Connor, who said no, maybe it was Ruth Bader Ginsburg, who said that, when will there be enough women on the Supreme Court? Not until there's nine. And I think it's true, I think we're going to get there in some areas faster than others. But hopefully, groups like Travis County, when Lawyers Association, other women's group across the country will will really lead the charge on that. And that, you know, growth of women in the very top positions in their fields.
Erica D'Eramo:I love that that quote. And I think it was Ruth Bader Ginsburg, but I love it because like the follow up was the follow up from the interviewer was like, well, don't you think that's too many? Because that's, that's also not equitable. And her response was essentially like, but you've had nine men the whole time, and nobody thought it was inequitable. So this is, once we have nine women and nobody blinks an eye at it, then we'll know that we've actually achieved equity, normalization of just seeing women in these spaces to the point that we aren't shocked by by the numbers. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so switching gears a little bit, and maybe going back to sort of where we started, what do you think folks should be thinking about in terms of, you know, planning, whether we call it estate planning, planning for the future? And, and just in terms of some of the work that you do?
Liz Nielsen:Yeah. So you know, I think that when people think about estate planning, and we kind of mentioned this already, right, there's sort of the two sides of it. There's the incapacity planning side, and then planning for what's going to happen to your stuff when you pass away. And I think really planning for both of those situations is really important. So on the sort of incapacity planning side, right, typically, you'll have a document saying, like who would make financial decisions for you, if you couldn't, that's called a financial power of attorney. And it's super important. And especially if you are a business owner, making sure that there's someone that can make decisions for the business if you can't, so important, I worked on a case where a business owner had become incapacitated, and like, they couldn't even figure out how to make payroll for a pretty big company, because really, nobody else had access to it. So I think really thinking through that, and making sure there was a plan is super important. And then you know, the medical documents, we've talked about this, but making sure you have named someone to make medical decisions for you, if you can't make them for yourself is just so important. And then so we do some documents, like you know, a document that says who a doctor can talk to about your medical condition, and usually you'll want more than one person right to be able to talk to the doctor. Because, you know, in families, there's usually more than one person you might want your partner and your parents or your kids or your best friend or all of those people and you can have all of them. And I think that's really important and then talking about that the living will that document that says right if you if you're incapacitated, it looks like you're not going to make it and the doctor has to decide right whether or not to you know, keep you on live so to support or to have it removed. I think having a document and not leaving that up to your family. because it's such a hard decision to make in the moment. And so I think kind of, if you can make that decision ahead of time, it really takes a huge burden off of your family. And so that's sort of the incapacity sign side. And I think that a lot of times that's overlooked, when people think about what estate planning is, but then there's also right planning for what's going to happen after you pass away, like who's going to be in charge? I think that's a really important thing to think about. But then also, you know, who do you want your beneficiaries to be? And I think we were talking about misconceptions. I think one misconception is that people think, gosh, if I don't have any kids, you know, I'm not married, it's going to be really easy. I don't even need a plan. But it's actually the opposite. Planning is a lot easier, if you know who's gonna get your stuff, right. If it's really obvious, it's gonna go to my, my spouse, and then it's gonna go to my kids like, that is so much easier to plan than for someone who's like, well, I support like 40 charities, maybe we can have a go to all of them. I mean, that's, that's a lot harder, it's a lot harder, have a conversation, I'm working with a family right now with a pretty sizable estate, and they don't have any kids and, you know, deciding what's going to happen to it, or how it's going to go to charities in a way that's gonna be beneficial to the charity, you know, leaving a charity $10 million, without any instructions is usually not a great idea. But people are also really hesitant, they don't want to talk to the charities, or because they're worried that oh, my gosh, they're just going to harass me for money for the rest of my life. If I tell them, I'm going to do this, and I work with a lot of development officers at, you know, different nonprofits or universities. And they assure me that if we tell them, gosh, don't please do not contact my clients, except for helping them plan this one gift after they passed away. They promised me that they will honor that. And I do believe them on that, because they have a lot of motivation to make sure that they are going to get that gift that we're talking about. But I think, yeah, it's planning for people that that don't have kids much, much harder. But even if you do have kids, it's really important, of course, especially if you have minor children, they can't receive money out rights, you need to think about that, and who you want to be in charge, on that end, to naming guardianship documents for your kids. And so deciding, you know, who do you want them to live with? What do you want to raise them if you couldn't do it yourself? Really hard things to think about. But just so important, and truly just one of the biggest gifts that you can give your family is a well planned estate. Yeah,
Erica D'Eramo:I think something else that people don't necessarily consider is if they have a family member who is perhaps like receiving state support for disability or, you know, the things become more complex, because you might end up causing unintended consequences by just, you know, handing over a large sum of money to them. And it might actually change their situation in a way that they hadn't expected or planned in terms of the support or resources that they're eligible for, at that point. So,
Liz Nielsen:yeah, I think that's a really good point, I do a lot of planning for families that have children with special needs. And I think, planning in a smart way, it can make a huge difference. Because even if, you know, sometimes families think, Gosh, I've got enough assets that we aren't going to have to worry about governmental benefits like, gosh, you just don't know. Because medical needs change for people. But also, you know, sometimes money doesn't go quite as far as you think it's going to go. And yeah, I think that making sure that you're doing that smart planning is, it's just so important. And it's not so hard to do it on the planning side, but it's really hard to recreate it after someone's passed away. And I didn't end up doing a lot of that kind of trying to figure out Okay, how can we keep this child on benefits that really needs it for their health care? When they received you know,$100,000 from their great aunt, it's challenging, and that really, a little bit of planning can avoid that situation altogether?
Erica D'Eramo:Yeah. So for folks who maybe feel like they wouldn't know where to start, or, you know, they don't know anyone who does this work or, you know, are worried about the cost involved, the upfront and cost involved, like what resources are available, or where would you point them to start as a first step?
Liz Nielsen:Sure. So you know, I think my life and we put out a lot of really great content on this. We have some videos on our website or websites, estate plan. atx.com We have some videos we have a really thorough blog we've been blogging for I don't know Six years twice a week. So we have blogs on pretty much any topic. And you can search through those and find really almost anything that you would want to. We have some videos, we also on our LinkedIn, we post videos on a weekly basis, that just covers some of the basics of estate planning. And let's see what is my LinkedIn, it's Liz dash, Nielsen dash attorney. And so there's some really great content there. We are also working on a podcast. And so we'll have that linked on our website and on our LinkedIn as well. But then, sort of in your local community, I think, looking for board certified or whatever the version of that in your state is really important in Texas to become a board certified attorney, it's, it's really hard. And so it really shows it's an attorney who all they practice is estate planning and probate. And I think for most people, if you can find someone who's a specialist in the field, that's probably a better choice. I'm certainly in some smaller communities, that's not possible. But if you live in a relatively large city, you should be able to find somebody who really focuses in this area of law. And I think that can really help get you started. And then when you call, I would just ask about pricing, we're really transparent about it. And um, we do most of our Estate Planning on a flat price basis. So we have a pretty good idea of what it's going to be and we send out sort of a little handout that just kind of goes over what are the ranges? What can you expect? And I think a lot of attorneys are able to do that as well. So I think just asking questions. When I'm working with a client, I love working with clients who ask questions, as opposed to ones who just kind of sit there quietly and don't I think being engaged in the process is going to make it more fun for you, but also make it so you really understand, you know, what, what documents you're putting together and what you're assigning at the end.
Erica D'Eramo:So there are I have, like, I have to ask this because I feel like it would be at the top of everybody's mind. There are services out there where you can just like log on and put your details in. And they'll spit out some documents for you. Any thoughts that you want to share on?
Liz Nielsen:Yes,
Erica D'Eramo:what you've seen?
Liz Nielsen:Yeah, so you know, in addition to doing estate planning, I also do probate which is where we're going through that legal process after someone passes away. And a lot of times people have wills, which then we have to take to the probate court and have a judge declare, it's valid. And a lot of times we get to probate wills that people have done on their own. We call them the DIY wills, whether it is they've gone on the internet and printed something off, or they, you know, used to be people would go to the library and photocopy them. So we see that sometimes or sometimes people will just handwrite their wills, which you're allowed to do here in Texas. And I will say that I have never dealt with a DIY will that did not have some issue that made it more difficult to probate, whether it's not clear on who the beneficiary is. It doesn't name the executor in the correct way here in Texas, we have something called independent administration, but you have to put that in your will if you want it and a lot of the forms don't include that. Or, you know, the biggest issue I see actually are just wills not signed correctly, here in Texas, and I think in most states is a very specific way that you have to sign the will. And if it's not done correctly, it's just that much harder to probate and putting that much more stress on your family. So yeah, I generally do not recommend the DIY wills, although, you know, if all I'm doing is business development, they're great, because then we can make a lot more money on the probate side.
Erica D'Eramo:Well, yes. I appreciate that transparency. But yes. Sounds like not something that you would recommend for your loved ones.
Liz Nielsen:It's really not.
Erica D'Eramo:But I do think for folks who maybe feel like reaching out to a human being might either be cost prohibitive or that, you know, there are resources available. It sounds like many of those might not be quite fit for purpose to the extent that, you know, they would do the job that is intended. I
Liz Nielsen:think that's right, I know that. And Harun asked, I think a lot of communities, there's a lot of clinics for people who truly can't afford estate planning, pro bono clinics, and I'd say you know, if, if you qualify, I would absolutely take advantage of that here. We have veterans legal clinics where we will do estate planning for veterans. We also have volunteer legal services where they'll connect you with another attorney with an attorney who's able to do that planning and we also have something called the cam Law Clinic, which does estate planning for people who have been diagnosed with cancer to take that one stress off of them. And so I think a lot of communities have these types of resources and I would absolutely I look forward, if that's something that you need.
Erica D'Eramo:Yeah, yeah, that's really great to know, to kind of look out there for what's available versus trying to take that on yourself, and maybe not getting it right, because you didn't have to go through all the law school. So I really appreciate you sharing your insights, both in terms of professional organizations and professional organizations that support women specifically. And then also in terms of planning and what people can be thinking about as, as they're looking at that and kind of debunking some of the myths there. What key lessons would you want our listeners to take away today? Did you have any final thoughts?
Liz Nielsen:Gosh, I think you know, from our conversation, a couple of things that kind of come to mind. One is, I think, just, you know, lifting people up, if you're a minority in an organization, just making sure you're focused on, you know, being collaborative, and helping lift people up, as opposed to kind of just on your own trying to always get to the top, I think we will always do better when we do it together. I think mentoring I think if you are younger, seeking out a mentee, if you're more experienced, being a mentor, maybe having both types of relationships. I know I do, where I certainly do a lot of mentoring, but I'm so appreciative to the people that continue to mentor me. And I think seeking that out is great. And whether you do it through you know, professional organization like Travis County Women Lawyers Association, or you do it, you know, at the company where you work or just kind of informally by reaching out, I, I often end up mentoring, discuss people reach out and ask if I want to have coffee to share with them about my journey, and I'm able to, you know, develop those relationships, which I really, really like. And then I think on the planning side, I think just, you know, not being afraid of estate planning. But instead, you know, learning about it before you start on the process. I find my clients that are educated about estate planning just tend to be better clients for me, but also they end up having better estate plans at the hand. So I think educating yourself but then going to an attorney and having an attorney on help with getting your plan put together is a really it's just really important. It's a really, as I said before, it's a gift for your family when you when you do
Erica D'Eramo:that. Yeah, rather than it being something that you really should or have to do this is something an opportunity for you to make life easier for people that you love. Absolutely. Yeah. Well, I again, really appreciate all the free resources that you put out there as well. So in the show notes, and within the transcript will be linking to both your LinkedIn profile will link to your your firm's website. And so people can go and find some of the resources that you've already made available in terms of videos and blogs, and soon to be a podcast which Welcome to the podcasting world. And for anyone that is looking for more of our episodes or the transcript for this episode, you can find that on our website at twopiersconsulting.com. And thanks again for joining us today. Liz really appreciated.
Liz Nielsen:Absolutely. Thank you so much, Erica for having me. Yeah, and
Erica D'Eramo:we look forward to seeing our listeners next episode.
