The Two Piers Podcast
The Two Piers Podcast
The Coaching and DEI Connection - with Coach Thea Charles
In this insightful and heartfelt episode, join host Erica D'Eramo and guest Thea Charles as they explore the generative relationship between coaching and diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI).
The conversation navigates the realms of universal design, DEI myths, and organizational challenges while shedding light on how coaching becomes a powerful catalyst for personal and professional growth.
Tune in for a nuanced discussion of the journey toward inclusivity and the transformative impact it can have on individuals and organizations. Don't miss this enlightening conversation at Two Piers Consulting, where coaching and DEI seamlessly converge.
You can learn more about Thea's work and connect with her on LinkedIn, Facebook, or via her website at TheaRenel.com.
Hello and welcome to the Two Piers podcast. I'm your host Erica D'Eramo. And today our guest is joining us to talk about the connection between coaching and diversity, equity and inclusion. So two things that we are particularly passionate about hear at Two Piers. So our guest Thea Charles is the founder of Thea Renel Coaching which specializes in life and leadership coaching as well as diversity, equity and inclusion consultation. She also provides mentorship coaching for those pursuing ICF certification. So almost a coach of coaches you might say. As a result of previous work in a fast paced, high risk hospital laboratory, Thea's approach is methodical and structured. She helps clients see the big picture when they feel stuck in the details, and is open to pivoting when presented with a new perspective. Thea's coaching specialization is around boosting confidence in skills and being aware of blind spots. In her experience, people have the answers, but they just need to build confidence and to trust themselves. In today's fast paced world, Thea preaches the importance of leveraging the power of the pause to gain clarity. Thea earned a Bachelors of Science in Biology from Providence College, and she is an ICF Professional Certified Coach, also known as a PCC. Her passion for creating equitable spaces started long before DEI was present in everyday conversation. Thea strives to drive awareness of biases when coaching and to extend coaching to underrepresented groups. So Thea and I met through the New England Chapter of the International Coaching Federation, where she's a board member and the Vice President of Diversity, Equity and Inclusion, which is a committee that I serve on. So I've been really excited to have Thea join us on the podcast and share some of her insights. Thank you so much for joining us, Thea.
Thea Charles:Thank you, Erica, for having me. I'm really excited to be here.
Erica D'Eramo:So tell us a little bit about you know, your story like what's, where did the Thea of today, what was her journey? Where did she come from?
Thea Charles:Oh, goodness. So I guess I'll give you my journey to towards coaching, which was not a straight line in any sense of the sense of the term. Like you mentioned, I went to school for biology. And I thought that I was going to be a doctor like that was the plan. And as I got closer to the end of school, I realized I was not as passionate as my classmates to go into that field. And I decided to pump the brakes a bit. And I got a job in a laboratory. And this was an organ transplant lab. I worked there for very many years, we did all the matching of donors to recipients and all types of, all types of stuff happened in that lab. And it was it was fast paced, and it was interesting. And we met a lot of people from all over the world or that there was a lot of fellows that would come from all over to learn from us. And, and obviously, we had to interact with clinicians. And through that process, I didn't realize I was using coaching skills. But that would come later. But it was just something that I really enjoyed doing. So after a couple of years, I basically grew up there, I got married, I had kids, the whole thing like felt like the founding parts of my adult, adult life happened in the laboratory. And I switched jobs still within the lab. But now I'm doing, I did compliance, so I became their first compliance officer. And through there, I was kind of charged a little bit with changing the culture of the lab, and just being the liaison between the laboratory and regulatory compliance, like regulatory agencies, outside of the hospital, and even within and with all of the clients that we served. And my approach was different than what had happened before. So I was more collaborative, in that I wanted to know what the lab people that were doing the work were needed, along with what the clinicians needed, along with what the patients needed. And when new rules would come about. I didn't really like the idea of just stacking rules on top of rules, instead of looking back at the process and seeing what could make us the most efficient. And, you know, we're really proud of the time that I was there. I worked in that position for four and a half years or so. And our wait times went down, our, everything was working really well. But during that time, like I mentioned, I got kids expenses about higher and I kind of I'm a person that likes to try a lot of different things. So for some reason I decided to open up an online boutique while I was working. And it kind of was like, extra income, some fun, I like clothes, whatever, it was really good. And there, once again, I'm just using coaching skills that I didn't know I had. Because I wouldn't say that I was the best salesperson. I was, I liked people to feel good about what they were wearing, and good about when they looked at themselves how they want it to be seen. So oftentimes, someone might come in, I had a couple local, local clients, most of it was online, but some local people would come and be like, "Oh, I saw so and so wearing whatever. And I like that too." Like, "oh, we can find that for you. But it might not be the dress that's doing it for you. Maybe it's the her feeling of confidence or how she felt good about herself. So let's find something that makes you feel good, too." And so, like I said, the business was doing well. And my commute to Boston was getting very long, especially with young people at home. And I, it was scary. But I took the leap to leave the laboratory and do the boutique full time. And in doing that it was great, but I didn't know how to stop working. So I felt like oh, now this is my full time gig, it should be better than when it was a part time gig and I didn't know how to stop. And I ended up hiring a coach. And once I hired that coach, I was like, "Oh, this is coaching. I get it now." These are all the different parts of these jobs that I liked. And here we are together. And that's how I decided to go into a coaching school and become a coach than I am today. Yeah, does that answer your question a little bit?
Erica D'Eramo:Yeah, absolutely. That's, um, I love that nonlinear journey. Like, I think that a lot of times, there are so many skill sets that can be brought from those technical fields that people maybe don't even appreciate that translate into whatever the other world is that you're approaching. And in this case, it was coaching or, and or a boutique as well. But I love that kind of translation and extrapolation of skills that you brought with you. So you mentioned kind of you discovered coaching, when you worked with a coach, what drew you to really invest in this work? Like what made it, you know, a potential path for you?
Thea Charles:That's a really good question. You know, some of it started from the boutique a little bit, because I started to realize that some people were not coming to shop, they were coming to talk. And it was a different environment where, if you were coming over, it'd just be me and you and I realized that for some people, that was the first time they're really being heard and listened to. And, you know, so that that was one thing. And then also, you know, as someone who started to become a senior person within the laboratory, a lot of people would come to me just like, let's talk, can we have coffee, you know, so I felt like I was coming in to like a mentorship sort of role that I didn't exactly sign up for, but it just kind of naturally happened. And, you know, just really, and yeah, just working with that coach, I was like, you know, I think this is something that comes pretty natural for me. But I would like to know how to do it in a way that wouldn't be harmful. And that I knew what I was talking about. Or I knew the proper way to coach rather than making it up as I go.
Erica D'Eramo:Yeah. So this was sort of something that you encountered and thought like, I liked doing this, I'm good at doing this. Let's see where it goes.
Thea Charles:Yes, that's kind of it, and also having support at home to be like, you can do that. That really was helpful. Because otherwise I don't know if I would have.
Erica D'Eramo:Yeah, yeah, that's such a great point. I mean, I, I have mixed feelings on the whole Lean In thing. But I do remember the guidance from Sheryl Sandberg way back in the day about like one of the most important career decisions you can make. And I think this does apply to men and women as well. But like one of the most important career decisions you can make is who you decide to partner with. Because having a cheerleader at home versus having somebody who's like,"well, is that really going to be you know, a financially sound decision for us?" or you know, not seeing the potential there, it can make, make or break some of these dreams that we have.
Thea Charles:Very true. Very true. It's so it's so nice when someone's in your corner. And and then seeing the inverse when someone's not how much they can shrink you and make you second guess yourself.
Erica D'Eramo:Yeah, absolutely. And that probably that probably extrapolates well beyond partnership. You know, and I think that we like maybe add additional weight to that because there's perhaps combined finances etc. But really, it's it's whoever we bring into our circle, right and so, so that was is one of the reasons for me to like, bring it back to coaching that joining like a coaching chapter was so important to me to start surrounding myself with other people who also felt passionate about this path and the power of coaching, especially coming from an industry that was very technical, very serious, you know, there are a lot of people who are like, "You're going to do what? You're going to, you're going to leave this amazing career you have or you have financial stability, and you have a network and you're, you're going to do coaching? What are you thinking?" So did you encounter any of that as well?
Thea Charles:Oh, 100%! Yeah, yeah. Yes. How can you leave a career that you, you've built your name around this. You've worked on it for so long. You're good at it. Like, why would you leave? And for the unknown of being an entrepreneur, like, you know,
Erica D'Eramo:Yeah.
Thea Charles:Do you know how to do this? You're not going to get a steady paycheck. What's going to happen to your kids? You know, there were so many questions that came up. Like, I'm kind of scared. But, you know, some, something made me take the take the leap?
Erica D'Eramo:Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think that if you're not scared when making those decisions, you're probably, you probably don't have your eyes wide open. So the key is like, being scared and doing it anyways, understanding the risks involved. So yeah. So what would you say when in terms of, you know, coaching and diversity, equity and inclusion, what would you say? Like? How did those concepts kind of come together for you? Where do they meet or intersect?
Thea Charles:Yeah, I think they are very tightly wound together, in, in my personal opinion. And I think I first realized how I felt about that, during my coaching program, like learning about coaching, the program very much followed, the ICF coaching core competencies, kind of how we are lessons were set up. And there was one class that was the diversity class, and it was like, oh, diversity classes coming and the teachers uncomfortable, and you might feel weird, and all this stuff, like, around this class, what is what could possibly be coming up in this class? And it's like, oh, you might coach people that are different from you. And, you know, it was just very...
Erica D'Eramo:Shocking!
Thea Charles:You know, we've been going through these competencies, about, you know, meeting people where they are, understanding that people have their own backgrounds and their own understanding of themselves, and that we need to trust our clients. So what's the difference? If someone, if you are perceiving that someone is different from you, because I mean, as we went through the program, basically, everyone is different in some way, or form. And that's why they're the expert on their particular situation, you can help by asking questions and helping them, you know, listen to them, and help them come to understanding of where they need to go and what works for their particular situation without having that attachment as a coach being like, "I want them to go this way." You let them decide. So I didn't see the big difference. Because when looking at any client, I come with the understanding that I don't know everything about them. I only know what they share with me, and that they will have better knowledge about things that might that might work for them than I would and it's my job to help them find that within themselves.
Erica D'Eramo:Yeah, that, I absolutely see that parallel there between the curiosity that we are meant to bring as coaches, like that clean slate curiosity, checking as many of our assumptions and biases at the door, and how that then relates to diversity, equity and inclusion where each individual has so many facets that we will never see or never really fully comprehend. And that we approach everyone as their own unique self. Yeah.
Thea Charles:Yeah. I mean, in one realm, we see that even like, within families, right, you often hear oh, you're the middle child, blah, blah, blah, are the oldest. And these are people that may be growing up with the same parents in the same home, but they have different experiences. And that's just based on the fact that they're different people. And the oldest has a parent that was a new parent and the one who's next has a parent who's more experienced and they do things differently.
Erica D'Eramo:Yeah. I, I actually think just reflecting on coaching a little bit that for folks who are maybe less familiar with coaching, they'll often perceive a value in having a coach who has very similar background or lived experience to them. And on the one hand, I think that that relationship or like that similarity can certainly lead to like, trust a bit faster, because you're kind of maybe using similar language, like referencing similar experiences. So for me, an analogue would be, you know, a woman who's worked offshore in energy. You know, we have a lot of the same vocabulary and a lot of the same shared experiences. And yet, the downside to that is that I'm so much more likely or tempted to sort of assume that I know, right, because I've been there. So so that that balance is always like a good reminder to me that when I'm working with somebody who's actually had much more similar experiences, to me, I need to be a bit more careful to not extrapolate myself into that situation.
Thea Charles:Yes, that's very true. I find that often if I'm coaching someone in an industry, or in a place that I've never been, that the coaching sometimes feels like it's a little deeper and goes a little faster, because I have true curiosity, because I don't know anything. And so what might seem like a very simple question could be some something that's very helpful.
Erica D'Eramo:Yeah. So then, I guess what, how? How can we extrapolate that into diversity, equity and inclusion? Like what are some, for folks who are either looking to create more inclusive work environments, which I hope is everyone regardless of their, or their official level of leadership. But for folks who are actively really focusing some effort there, like what are some learnings that we could maybe pull over from the coaching side?
Thea Charles:Yeah, that is a great question. Well, first of all, there can be like we're saying, the listening to what someone is saying, and having empathy, and empathy, I always like to point out is different than sympathy. So empathy is really being able to listen to that person and kind of understand where they're coming from, sort of like put on their shoes, I guess, where sympathy is, when you're feeling pity, like, it's not to feel pity on someone, it's but to listen to their perspective of whatever it is that they're sharing, and you can learn something from it. So that's definitely one way that that can work in, in any realm. And then kind of having that self awareness that there are biases, and that we all have personal biases. And to kind of check that when you're making an assumption, like, Am I making this assumption? Or did this person told me this. So that's something to hold on to. And then I find that DEI helps everybody. So it's not just like a, it's not just, it doesn't have like a specific lane that it goes into. So it may be cultural differences, or different abilities and disabilities or something. But oftentimes, when you listen to someone and make a change, or do something to make someone feel included, you get so much more when people can come as themselves and feel comfortable in a space. Kind of helps everyone.
Erica D'Eramo:Yeah, and gives gives you much fuller access to all the gifts and perspectives that that person could bring to the organization. I love the differentiation between sympathy and empathy there in relation to diversity, equity inclusion, actually, because I find that where so many organizations sort of like maybe get themselves a little caught up in the weeds. Is this idea of DEI being like some sort of philanthropic effort where we are going to give things to people out of a sense of, I don't know, guilt or morality, which, yes, it is the ethical thing to make sure that people have equal opportunity. And that we don't have disparate barriers, and also it's, that's not usually the like driving motivator for businesses to invest in long term strategy. So that, that shift from the sympathy to empathy, where it's like, you know, we're all in this together. Actually, that's a human being, I'm a human being. It's not. You're not gifting somebody something because you feel bad for them.
Thea Charles:Exactly. Exactly. And the other day, I was at my child's school, they asked for help to bring canned food to a food pantry, because they had done a drive, and I went and they had this car and they pushed this cart with like, all this stuff like towards my car, and I realized that elementary schools are built differently nowadays, there is no lip. Like when you walk through the door, the doors open like a book. And there's no bumps like there's no stairs or anything to go in. And that's something we're, you know, probably wasn't meant for the person pushing a cart of food out. But look how that helped me that we had put, someone had thought about this accessibility and how many other people does it help? You know, that might not have been the initial, the initial thought, but there's so many things that when you look at it from another perspective, you realize how helpful it could be to more than who you thought at the beginning?
Erica D'Eramo:Oh, yeah, absolutely. That universal design component that nowadays, I mean, my, I have, you know, full hearing capacity, and yet, I really, really value subtitles, I value captions. It's to the point that I expect it and if I see a video where I can't just watch it without having to put the sound on I find myself like a little bit annoyed, because I'm so used to having captions, which is why we try like at Two Pieers, we try to put captioning on all of our videos. And then also for our podcasts, we include the transcripts, because, again, I don't know, if somebody even wants to be listening to something, perhaps they absorb it better by reading but making it like accessible to everyone is not not just a gift to some subset of people. This is this is better for for everyone to get access to it, like it benefits me too. So,
Thea Charles:Yes.
Erica D'Eramo:Yeah. So where do you in the work that you've done in terms of for expanding diversity, equity, equity and inclusion in the realm of coaching, what are some of the like myths or misconceptions that you've encountered?
Thea Charles:Well, some of the things, like you mentioned, is that diversity, equity, and inclusion is for a subset of people, and not for everyone. That is probably the biggest one. To help somebody else, but not me.
Erica D'Eramo:It's just for Black women. Right?
Thea Charles:That's it. It's only for Black people and
Erica D'Eramo:Maybe queer folks.
Thea Charles:That's kind of it. Yeah. You know? That is a big misconception. Yeah, that's probably the biggest one.
Erica D'Eramo:Hashtag sarcasm.
Thea Charles:Yes. Hashtag sarcasm. Also, that by looking at diversity, equity and inclusion, it's you're taking something away from someone else. And that is not the case.
Erica D'Eramo:Yeah, what would you say, from your view in the coaching world right now? Where do you think we're at in this profession? In terms of understanding.
Thea Charles:I think we still have some ways to go. I think that for coaching, just like with that coaching school I went to, I think it's time for us to look to see the similarities between coaching and diversity, equity, inclusion work, and how we're part of that, right, we're helping people to feel more authentic, to be able to work in a way that works for them. And that is, to me very much tied into diversity, equity inclusion, where people can come as they are, they can share their ideas, they can feel like themselves in whatever space that they're in and feel included, and that people want to hear them. And I feel like that's what we're kind of doing with coaching, right? Like we're helping someone to find their voice to be able to speak either in a meeting or they're looking, you know, they're all these different goals that people are working towards. And a lot of that, like you said before, is finding your confidence, right, and finding that confidence to be able to be yourself. And so I feel like we're very much tied together. But for some reason, we, the majority of coaches will say that they don't quite understand DEI, or where do I fit in with it, or I'm afraid to even mention it. Or like, "well, you're trying to do it in your own way."
Erica D'Eramo:Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I, I do think that there, there has been an accessibility challenge in terms of who has been offered coaching in the past. You know, the price tag on having a coach is not always accessible for everyone. And so, sometimes I feel like that compounds like socio-economic challenges. There's a bias issue around who is offered a coach. You know, if you're not seen as being leadership potential or you don't fit the mold or look like all of the other leaders that have come before you, perhaps you won't be offered, like an executive coach or a leadership coach or or the flipside of that is like, people who are essentially on their way out the, out the door, and then are offered coaching as like a last resort. Before they are handed their, you know, pink slip. And, and that's not good either that doesn't do anyone any favors.
Thea Charles:But I also think in some ways the word coaching is changing, right? In the past, if you heard that someone needed coaching, it was thought of as this is not a good thing you need coaching, whether while now we know that coaching can help elevate you, much like how a singer has a coach or a sports person has a coach is to help you see the blind spots that you didn't know were there.
Erica D'Eramo:Right. Yeah, I mean, really, the most effective coaching happens from people who want to be coached to have the potential who are invested. I mean, that's where the magic happens with coaching. So I think that one of the other misconceptions that I see a lot is that coaching is meant to sort of like, and this ties to the, when you get invited to have a coach, that it's in order to help you conform to your
Thea Charles:No, it seems like a lot of work, to constantly environment, where, and this is where I think an awareness around diversity, equity and inclusion is so important because, especially for underrepresented groups, there's a balance to be struck that is going to be different for each individual person around, like, how much do you want to conform for your own goals? Like what's effective for you? And then how can you bring more of your authentic self to the table? Because being a chameleon, your whole career is probably not sustainable or fulfilling or good for really good for anybody? come in and be acting on top of working. And I think that that is something that's really difficult for people right and difficult within these companies, for employer, employees to kind of decide how much do they want to conform? What feels comfortable enough? How much do I, how much do I push to be myself? And will that be detrimental to my position in this place?
Erica D'Eramo:Yeah. Yeah, I think like the coach can help differentiate between being effective in the situation versus like, changing who you are. You know, those are, those are two different things. But it's hard to see that when you're in it.
Thea Charles:Yes, very much.
Erica D'Eramo:Yeah. I see a lot of it with I mean, especially with women right around how they can, how you should change the way you speak and how you should ask for things differently in order to be more like men. And I just, I think there's this perception that, you know, especially for female leaders, when they get a coach that it's going to teach them how to be essentially, a leader, like a man would be a leader. And I, I really hope that coaching has moved beyond that. I don't see that amongst a lot of the coaches that I work with and know, might be selection bias there. But I don't know, what are you seeing?
Thea Charles:I may have that same selection bias. So I have not seen very much of that. And I hope, I sincerely hope that the most of coaching has kind of moved away from from that.
Erica D'Eramo:Yeah. From Yeah, yeah. So where do you, in your opinion from working with clients, from the work that you've done with ICF, where do you typically see, you know, companies or organizations struggling when it comes to this work?
Thea Charles:Yeah. Well, I think one of the initial struggles is usually not quite knowing what they want from DEI.
Erica D'Eramo:Yes.
Thea Charles:Are you, if you're an organization or company, are you looking? What does diversity mean to you does it mean the types of workers that come? Is it about your clients? Is it about accessibility? Like, I think that people come in, and they just say, I want to do the DEI, but they don't know what it means. And then, and then after, maybe once they have a consultation, or someone to help them and they're starting to move towards that direction of whatever it is that they needed. Now you have to come up against some of the biases or the structural things that within your company that you didn't realize we're only benefiting certain people. And then how does, you know that, to go through the storming of how does that feel? What does that mean about me? What does that mean about us? Does that mean we're terrible? Or, you know, how do we move past this or maybe we don't want to do this. So I think a lot of uncomfortable feelings can come out of starting DEI because it's about, you know, challenging the biases that you already, that you may have and then exposing them. And like Maya Angelou says, once you know better, you do better, or do you want to know better to do better. There's something that can be very scary about once you know.
Erica D'Eramo:Yeah, I mean, fundamentally, talking about selection bias, like the people who have succeeded and are in the positions of greatest power in a lot of organizations have inherently benefited from the status quo. They're certainly not being hurt by the status quo. So, you know, there's a bit in there too. I think it was Upton Sinclair, that says, like, it's really hard to get somebody to believe something that they're, you know, livelihood is based on them not believing.
Thea Charles:Yeah.
Erica D'Eramo:So yeah, yeah. The incentive structure gets a little wonky there. But it always fascinates me when I work with an organization and you ask like, "Okay, great. So how do we want... You want to do DEI. Okay. Understood." And when you say why, you know, usually get like a look of shock and horror, like, "What do you mean, why?" Because it's the right thing to do, right? And you're like,"Okay, great. So then how do you want the organization to look different in a year? Like, what do you want the actual change to be? What? What are you envisioning as the outcome of this?" And so often, it'll be like a list of well, we'll have some programming and like, Okay, but you've listed things. I haven't heard any impacts, like I haven't, would a snapshot of the organization in a year look exactly the same as it does now? And if so, how are you going to justify any sort of investment in this?
Thea Charles:Right, yes, all the time.
Erica D'Eramo:So what do you think the like? What's your response to that? I guess?
Thea Charles:Well, I often, you know, I think it's, it's, it's hard. I'll say it's not easy. But to really ask people. Alright, great. So it's one thing to say that we're going to do DEI, and we're going to do these programs, like you said, what are the outcomes? And what are you hoping to get? And how can we measure that so that you can see some type of success or see something move? When you look back in a couple of months, what is it that we want to say that we move on to and it doesn't have to be something huge or big or, like monumental, and I think that's also part of it, to realize that this is a journey. It's not an overnight success. So even a year could sound like a long time. But it's not really that long, in the grand scheme of things, so what can we do as a small step to start getting us in the right direction to see where this organization will be in the next five years? 10 years, whatever down the line? Like, where do you want the increments to go? So I think it takes a lot of deep soul searching, and a lot of talk about first of all, like what is DEI? What type of diversity? Are you looking for? Yeah. Which ways are people not feeling equitable? And who is it that you're wanting to include? And then, and also to bring in that belonging part because you can include anyone or invite anybody to any place. But that doesn't mean that they feel comfortable to be there. So if you invite someone, what are they coming to? When you invite someone to your party, are you going to say hello? Like what's gonna happen when they get to the party? How are they going to be greeted?
Erica D'Eramo:Yeah, yeah, we've been talking a lot about like, what how, how it's important for coaches to have this understanding of diversity, equity and inclusion. And now I feel like we're kind of moving, we are discussing the realm of in terms of diversity, equity and inclusion, quote, unquote, practitioners, whatever that means. The people who are hoping to move the dial. Some of the stuff you're describing sounds so much like coaching to me, right? It's like those open ended questions, those deep delving questions. And as we're talking about setting achievable goals, and understanding the motivators, it literally sounds like the opening questions in a coaching session, right? Like, what makes this important to you? How are we going to know if we're successful? What does a good outcome look like? What will get in the way?
Thea Charles:Yeah, yeah. And that's why I feel like it's all tied together. In order to get anywhere we have to have some type of roadblocks but not robots, but like road signs or to know how far we've come. And it's just very helpful to have something to look back to and to know why and, and I'm very much for a well thought out mission. So whenever you're starting something to come up with, with your mission, which is basically asking those same questions. So that when you look back, you can say, "Okay, I wanted to get to X by doing A. And it's important because of Y." And then when things come up, like, wait a minute, is this what I'm working towards? Are we all still working towards this? And do we still feel like this was important "because."
Erica D'Eramo:yeah. So what would be some, like key lessons that for any of our listeners that are tuning in today that you might want them to take away as they go back to the real world of trying to make change and living in this world that we're in right now.
Thea Charles:Some things to take away. First, I'd say that it's a journey, not a destination. And what you might know today might be different tomorrow. And then, and then when you're working with diversity, we all come from different places. So just assuming that two people have the same experience may not be the same, what might work really well, for one person may not work for someone else, and that's Okay. And part of that is to realize that as a diversity, equity and inclusion practitioner, the only person you really know about is yourself. Everything you're doing is a fact-finding, an exploratory mission. And with that, there'll be mistakes. And within those mistakes, be gracious, and realize that you're also learning and use that learning for the next interaction.
Erica D'Eramo:Yeah, oh, yeah. I love that growth mindset right there. And that continued curiosity. Well, I really appreciate you coming on and sharing some of your insights today. And these cross connections that I have felt, and sensed, in this work that feels it feels like two sides of the same coin to me, even though we differentiate like, oh, diversity, equity and inclusion, consulting versus coaching. But for me, they're like, like you said, they're so intertwined, that they are nearly one in the same in in, at least in my work, in my view. So I really appreciate the opportunity to explore that a bit. If anyone wanted to kind of connect with you or learn more about your services or your coaching, how would they go about doing that?
Thea Charles:Well, you can always find me on LinkedIn, under Thea (Sobers) Charles, and I'm on Facebook as Thea Renel coaching. And I also have a website, that's thearenel.com. So that is the best places to find me. Like you can definitely chat me up on LinkedIn. I'm always looking for fun people to talk to.
Erica D'Eramo:Awesome, we will put all of those links in the show notes and in the transcript as well. And we really appreciate you taking the time. Thank you so much, Thea.
Thea Charles:Thank you, Erica. It's been wonderful. Thank you for inviting me.
Erica D'Eramo:And thank you also just for outside of this podcast, all the work that you're doing as in a volunteer capacity to really move things forward and remove some of those barriers to opportunity for both coaches, people that are trying to pursue coaching, and people who are trying to get access to coaching, I think you've really made a big impact in that space.
Thea Charles:Thank you for saying that.
Erica D'Eramo:And for our listeners. You can find the full transcript for this episode on twopiersconsulting.com and we look forward to seeing you next episode.
