The Two Piers Podcast
The Two Piers Podcast
The Power of Community with GG Renee Hill
In this enlightening episode, host Erica D'Eramo sits down with author and facilitator GG Renee Hill to delve into the intricacies of community building, resilience, and creativity. GG shares her personal journey, from her sensitive and creative childhood to overcoming challenges as a young mom. She discusses the importance of community support, the misuse of the term "resilience," and how her blogging journey led to a deeper understanding of vulnerability and connection. Together, Erica and GG explore the complexities of community, the necessity of safe and inclusive spaces, and the power of storytelling in bridging divides. Tune in for a heartfelt conversation about finding and building authentic communities, embracing diversity, and the ongoing journey of self-awareness and acceptance.
To learn more about GG's work, visit her website at AllTheManyLayers.com or follow her Instagram @ggreneewrites.
Hello and welcome to the Two Piers podcast. I'm your host, Erica D'Eramo. And joining us today as our guest is author and facilitator GG Renee Hill. GG helps others discover and express their truths through writing. She brings her experience as a memoirist and creative coach to the community programs and offerings that she hosts through her website, allthemanylayers.com. GG provides her clients and participants with tools to understand their creative work on a deeper level so they can overcome blocks and make progress on their goals. GG is also a self help author whose books and guided journals sent her writing as a tool for self care, personal growth and creative courage. Her debut book of essays, story work, finding and fueling a creative vision for your life is forthcoming from broadleaf books in fall of 2025, which we are super excited about. And GG happens to be one of our very few returning guests. So we are really excited to have her join us today to talk about the concept of community, how to build community, what makes community and what insights she has from her journey of crafting, hosting and creating space for community in the writing world. Thanks so much for joining us, GG.
GG Renee Hill:Thank you for having me back, Erica. It's a pleasure to be here today.
Erica D'Eramo:Yeah, I was this is a topic I've been wanting to talk about for a while this concept of community and you immediately came to mind as someone who could speak knowledgeably thoughtfully, but also just from the, you know, the nonlinear journey that is understanding and building community. So I really appreciate you taking the time to come and chat with us.
GG Renee Hill:Absolutely. It's something that in the past few years has become really centered in my personal and professional journey. So I'm always excited to talk about it. And what I've learned through my own experiences in finding and building community for sure.
Erica D'Eramo:I think that for me, this work ties so closely to some of our topics around resilience, because well, like into peers, you know, we talk a lot about resilience. And I joke that this is one of my like, most beloved and hated words because it gets misused so much. And when I talk about that, really, a lot of times what I'm talking about it being misused is this concept of like individualism around resilience, you know, reaching within and pulling out some grit and just trudging through and armoring yourself against the world, when really the reality that we know, through this through the data through our lived experiences that it doesn't work that way. It's really about community, right, and like reliance on community, that's what the data shows. So that's one of the reasons I think, for my engagement with your community around, you know, healing some of the creative barriers, like resolving some of that this element of community has just been so powerful. So that's why I see you as an expert here.
GG Renee Hill:I appreciate that. And it's really affirming for to see that mirror to because I too, coming from a background of that definition of strength and resilience in words like that all coming from within it's something you have to it's private, it's it's something you have to deal with in yourself, it's almost something that is a burden to ask to be shared with others. That's the background that I come from. So unlearning that right has been a big part of this journey. So it's just really thankful to play a part in supporting that within others as well.
Erica D'Eramo:So I mean, speaking about your background, tell us a little bit about your origin story. And I know like because you have your returning as a guest. Some of this you might have covered in your last episode, which was about journaling and how powerful that can be in various parts of our life. But tell us again, or how it's changed.
GG Renee Hill:Sure, absolutely. I started off as a very sensitive, imaginative, creative child who loves to read who loves to journal who loves art, singing, dancing, all the things, and that became my private little World as a kid, particularly when my mother started showing signs of mental illness at a pretty young age, around nine or 10, my mother began to present with strange behavior, hallucinations, delusions, accusations. And this was in the 80s, when this was not something that my family really had the research resources or understanding to deal with. So it was kept very quiet. No one really addressed it, no one really guided me through it. And she wasn't diagnosed until I was in college. So I spent most of those years going into preteens and teens, keeping a big part of myself secret, internalizing a lot of my confusion, sense of abandonment, all of that, which, in hindsight, it really did deepen as pain and confusion and trauma does, really did deepen that sort of creative escape world that I had inside of myself. And it also built this belief system that it wasn't just my mother's illness, it was just sort of like the culture and familial culture, the broader community culture. Coming from a black family coming from that time I mentioned, it was the 80s. Everything was kept the the dominant narrative was keep your business to yourself, keep your problems to yourself, hide these things, right. So there really wasn't us. I had community at church, I had lots of friends, I had family, but the community support aspect for what was really going on in my life wasn't there. It was like, for the things you're proud of the things you're celebrating, like your accomplishments and your interest in your passions. I had community for that, right? I had my dance community I had, you know, my school community, right. But what was really going on in my life that I really needed support, when I didn't have community for that, even within my own home, my dad didn't really talk about it, nobody really talked about it. So it built this belief system in me that there is no there is no support system for things that were ashamed of, or confused by or can't explain. And I carry that all through my young adulthood. When it came to being in my years of, you know, graduating college, getting started in the workforce, I was a young mom, I had my first child at 24. I guess to some people, maybe that's not a young mom, at 24, I felt like emotionally, like, wow, I'm bringing another life into this world. And there was so much that I didn't understand about myself, or how to take care of myself mentally, physically, emotionally, and didn't know I never learned how to ask for help. I never learned how to be vulnerable in that way. I had close girlfriends, but even within those groups, we were the blind leading the blind, we didn't know, right, how to help each other. And we just kind of like, circulated these limiting beliefs amongst ourselves, right that these were we all agreed, yes, we have our skeletons in our closets in our secrets, and we need to hide them. We can't let anyone find out because we're supposed to be presenting this polished Professor professional have it all together persona. And that was the vibe, that was what we did. So even, you know, within that, those years of my life, I still was kind of like harboring this individualism, if I could use that word that like, within myself, I had to find everything that I needed, so that I could be accepted on a community level. If I brought all of my messiness and my quirks and my weirdness and my problems and all of that out into the open than I would be there was this deep fear of abandonment and of being cast out of the groups that I thought I wanted to be a part of, that I so needed to be a part of, to be worthy to, to, you know, so there was a lot of unlearning that needed to be done. And I think what led me to those changes that you know, that really started was through journaling was through finding that I needed somewhere I needed somewhere where I could be honest, where I could just let it out and be real and be true. And right around the time that I really got into journaling and using it as a tool to release some of all of feel like all of these built up stories and feelings was right around the time of social media, like then social media really started becoming a daily thing that was part of all of our lives. So for me, someone who was rediscovering writing was just rediscovering my true self. It just pulled it out of me, I wouldn't go it was started with Facebook, I wouldn't go on Facebook and talk about like, what I was having for dinner, I would go on to talk about my feelings, I couldn't help myself. It pulled out of me. And I was surprised myself, right. I was just like, and eventually a few friends were just like, you need a blog or something like, you know, it's cool that you're putting this stuff on Facebook. But what if you had a blog, right? And a couple of my friends were like, yeah, that's, you know, it's actually really, really good idea. So I started a blog with one of my friends who was going through a similar thing. And I would say, that was one of them, that that made dipping my toe into a community that comes from a place of vulnerability and transparency and like, revealing, your yourself, those things that are behind the curtain, that all my life I thought needed to, you know, for me to be part of community, I would have to hide those things, not lead with them. Right, like, It's complete 180. And that was the beginning of it. And since then, it's just expanded from, you know, blogging, and I guess it went from blogging, to writing books, creating courses, into coaching. And coaching really kind of blew the door open in terms of me being able to build community. So first, it's like finding community finding, like common ground with people with the same passion, the same desire to bring those things that they had been taught, they needed to hide out into the open. And then as I got more and more comfortable, and confident in the way this practice was changing my life, I felt a need, it was a need to share that to offer these tools in service, like, I can help other people with this. And not only is that just an act of generosity, it's also very purposeful for me, because I feel like I can turn these years of pain and confusion and all those things that I mentioned, I can do something good with them, I can turn them into something else. That's what art is, right? It's turning it into something else. And creating a ripple effect. So that really drove me to where I am today with creating programs for people being a I'd like to think that I by offering my truths and my gifts, my, my own experiences, I attract people who are on that same journey, and then they discover each other. And that's really the beauty of it all for me and dislike that makes me smile to myself as I go to sleep at night, like seeing the connections that are made from that act of faith of just, you know, kind of putting that magnet out there like that.
Erica D'Eramo:So I, I think that this term around, community gets used a lot. And maybe, I mean, maybe we should just sort of like define it a little bit in terms of how we're using it here. Because I'm finding that it means something very different, depending on its context and what people people's experiences are because like you referenced, for some people, they might have maybe some negative experiences with community and, you know, their experience might be more around policing behaviors or respectability politics or always that, that risk of being cast out, which is one of the most painful experiences that we fear as humans that drive so much of what we do, consciously and unconsciously, from the time are a little Right. Like "you can't sit here at the lunch table," is like, right seared in a lot of our our childhood like traumatic memories. So when we talk about community, like how would you how do you conceptualize that? How do you define that term? Like what does it mean to you?
GG Renee Hill:Community... What it has, what it has come to mean to me, real community, that, that I gravitate towards is where you feel a sense of belonging, where you feel seen and heard for your authentic self, where it's safe, where you feel emotionally safe. Whereas there are, those are like chosen communities, I feel like where I've been part of many communities that I didn't necessarily choose where I just kind of was born into, or brought into the where I never really felt a sense of belonging. So for example, I mentioned earlier a church community, right, which I have a very wrought with that in hindsight now, it had such a big impact on shaping my childhood. And I have many just delicious, wonderful memories of that community. And I still have a lot of painful memories of that community. Because it was conditional, right? Right, and choose that community. When I had questions or challenged things, parts of that community, there was no punishment, there was being cast out, there was a lot of negative things that were detrimental to my self development in that community. There have also been communities that I thought I wanted to be a part of, and came to find out that actually, I didn't feel a sense of belonging there, whether it was like a group of cool girls that I thought I wanted to be in. Or at work, different work environments, thinking I wanted to be a part of this, or part of that. There's elements of being a black woman, I'm obviously a black woman and part of that community, but have still suffered the being cast out of certain aspects of that for not being black enough, or my black not showing up a certain way, or, you know, so it gets it gets really complicated. When we think about the the definition of community, I think that there's a general definition of it. But when it comes to our personal community, like stories, and our chosen community versus communities that we just happen to be a part of, or that we fall into, by way of our careers or different choices we make, we get to refine for ourselves, I think what it really means and how and I feel like community now is like almost like a not a skill, but it's almost like a craft or something that I've learned to not assume make assumptions about where am I? Where am I find my community, or where I might feel that you don't feel safe and all of the communities you're a part of? So yeah, that answers the question. Because it gets really complicated, doesn't it?
Erica D'Eramo:Yeah, it does. And I mean, I think that there's like no real answer to it. It's just sort of like, you know, what is the universe? It's, it's, it's a concept, right? And defining as we go, and I think when I think about community, I don't know what senator said, like, in reference to what's pornography, right. Like, I'll know it when I see it. Yeah. And I feel like, that's similar for me with community in that. You sort of know it, when you feel it. When you feel held by it, or what, maybe it's when you think, Okay, I'm just gonna show this like vulnerable thing, or I'm gonna put myself out there this piece that has gotten me cast out before that's made me be like weird or too much or whatever. And when the community like claps for it, you're like, Oh, I found my people, I found my community, or when they are just more willing to engage, right? Like maybe you do say something or do something that causes harm, and instead of being shunned or cast out, you're met with curiosity or with, you know, education or compassion. So I don't I do think that communities have some level of self regulation in a way because that's what creates some of the safety right is like getting to your community. I feel safe being able to share my writing because we have, we have guidelines like we have a Raymond's amongst us that we will not criticize each other's creative work unless explicitly asked. Right? So those like, those norms and rules, I think, can be helpful. As long as like we're all opting in.
GG Renee Hill:Yes, yes, those those norms and like principles are so important. And I realized by being someone who kind of fell into this work and wasn't necessarily seeking it out, that that was a big part, because I think I started off by just modeling, and kind of trying to create a space that I would have wanted for myself on this creative journey. And part of the way through, I was like, what are those principles that make people feel safe here, like what what guidelines need to be explicitly stated, so someone new coming in can either accept those principles and feel at home there and feel connected to them, or decides, hey, maybe this isn't for me, and that's Okay, too. And you named many of them just now, that curiosity, that compassion. And being able to state those things, I think, was a pivotal part in me kind of taking ownership of that leadership role and community like I want, if I'm going to bring people into this space and say, it's safe here, I need to really make sure that I'm doing everything I can to create that environment and sort of manage those expectations. You know, because a lot of people see that in, in places, or that's the, that's the lip service. But then it when it really comes down to it. It's kind of like, not as safe as it's been presented to be. So to be able to lay those things out, and then also model it has been is really important to me.
Erica D'Eramo:Yeah, I mean, it's interesting, too, because I think, as you talk through that, I, it just made me reflect back on like an early part of when I was trying to figure out where to take Two Piers and what to do with it. And somebody said, you should create like, an online Facebook community. And I said, You know what, I mean, the last thing I want to do is moderation. I don't want to be a content moderator. I don't want to be getting in the middle of like online spats where people have anonymity, and all this. So there's, there's something there's like some balance that gets struck about like tone setting in the beginning where everybody sort of knows. And yet, I know we've all been a part of a group who, which seemed great at the beginning, and then sort of like grew beyond what was manageable. And I think there's even science behind it that says, like, what numbers are feasible, like five to 25, is manageable. And then after that, it starts to get, I don't know. But the point being that these things can sometimes cleave themselves naturally. And you end up with like, factions or whatever. And that feels like drama. But that might just be like natural human ways of we have so much diversity amongst us that whatever it is that we're aligning with in terms of identity will become diverse enough, at some point that we'll have to, like, create a little mini group and grow that bubble there. I don't know. I mean, just kind of thinking through that in terms of that balance. And it's never just a static entity, right? It's always in flux. It's either growing or shrinking or morphing or changing or adapting to the world around it, which is challenging. I mean, I'm, I really admire folks who can, who can do that.
GG Renee Hill:Yeah, I mean, it remains to be seen for me because I think that that is a factor that has, I think more subconsciously, early on and more like in a in an aware way, now. I've wanted to keep my community at a manageable size. Right? Because of that, because I'm like, Okay, until I am ready and willing to set aside the time and resources to train other facilitators right to create a framework to train other facilitators to go through in a process to expand. I think that I'm so protective of the space that I probably for a lot of my decision making and the way I go about managing and growing the group, I'm conscious of that, like, I want to protect, like sort of the beating heart of it. And don't want it's like not, it'll never be a growth for the sake of growth type of community. But I mean, that could go into a whole other conversation of like more business oriented conversation about like scaling and growth and all of that and maintain Yeah, particularly rates, right. Um, he was an artist and the purpose driven sort of like, was talking about being purpose driven, and heart centered, and, and all of that and maintain that it's so important to me, because that's the only reason I'm doing it. I'm not doing it for just growth for the sake of growth or, you know. So I think sometimes that that can get messy and community when those when your agenda, you're not clear, or when it gets muddy along the way with what you're trying to do. And it can grow beyond what you're able to, you know, it can grow beyond and get away from those original principles that it was built on. So I just think that's a big responsibility. And it's something that I take really seriously. So it's always something that I'm thinking about the process of wanting to continue to feed and grow the group is like, what does growth look like, and still keeping that heart centered community there so we'll see, I'm still learning.
Erica D'Eramo:Because in this case, there's not like a wall, I think there's some kind of percentage that sort of low of your community that's located in a geographically in like the Mid Atlantic area, many of us are not right. And so there's not like a geographic setting that brings everyone together, it's about this kind of activity and process of creativity, writing, journaling, self reflection. Whereas sometimes when folks think about community, they might think about their neighborhood, or they might think about their township or their municipality or their school system, or like, there's different, and that creates a bit more of a concrete, you know, definition or identity that doesn't really waver or change as much or isn't, maybe as susceptible to evolution.
GG Renee Hill:And those expectations are often different, right? Because I definitely, you know, consider myself to be a member of many communities, like these subsets in these communities that were a part of, because of, like you said, where we live, or the interests or things we're involved with, and I value those communities. But those expectations and how I show up is naturally, there's some overlap, of course, certain, you know, values that I haven't going to show up the same anywhere, but it's different, the expectation is different. What you get out of it, what you put into it is different. So that's important, too, I think, you know, anyone who sort of maybe never just kind of took the idea of community for granted, like I did for many years, it's just kind of like, Okay, these are the people that I'm around in this space that people have to work together within this space. How many of us, you know, you and I obviously know what it is to have this sort of chosen creative community. I know so many people in my life who just don't even know what they're missing, in terms of, you know, finding community and people that they can connect with, on a level that is, you have to put yourself out there a little bit, in order to find those people, like you mentioned earlier, those things that you would typically hide, or that you maybe have been raised to hide, and being able to find the courage or whatever that motive wherever that motivation comes for you to put that out in the forefront, and in find that you actually aren't alone, in whatever that thing is you're dealing with. And it can be really scary to do that. You know, we talk about, you know, people who may be addicts who are in 12 Step programs, and they have groups and they have sponsors and partnerships, and those relationships or any type of support group like that, you know, for a problem you're dealing with those sometimes those people come from completely different worlds, but that common ground that you find, it's life changing and can do so much to get to build you that going back to that word resilience, right? Getting that resilience from, from an outside source, can really change your whole perspective and that dynamic of feeling like you're alone in this struggle that maybe you've been carrying for sometimes your whole life. So I wonder, often, like I said, even people in my own life like and how their life might be different if they would take some of those walls away and be vulnerable enough to attract or to find that type of community. I can think of names right now. Like family members. But yeah, that's Yeah,
Erica D'Eramo:Yeah. I mean, some of those people know what I'm thinking though. Some of them do go and find something that looks like community, but maybe is different than what we're describing. In that it does have maybe some of the more like, you know, I mean, Fight Club comes to mind. Right, which, let's just be clear, that Fight Club was satirical, like, it was a commentary on the subject matter, it was not a celebration of Tyler Durden, but um, but right, those like that, I'm gonna call it toxic, I should, probably shouldn't. But whatever the thing that draws people to that where it is very, like rigid rules, and hyper, what masculinity or whatever violence, whatever is drawing people, there's like, there is something that people are drawn to, I think a lot of people have a desire for community and maybe a fear as well around it, that they'll be rejected. But I, somebody sent to me one time, and I mentioned this to you, and I just kind of like grappled with it, but that they made a statement that like, "Oh, white people don't know what community is." And I thought like, Okay, like, I don't know, I don't know, if that's, I don't know, I'm really not trying to say that that's correct or incorrect. But it did mean make me think about how communities do coalesce and come together. And it's usually around this like sense of either otherness, or, like, I reflected on my growing up in a very, you know, Italian American household where I saw the Sopranos and I was like, "Oh, that's my like that. That's my family. Like, we're not doing the murders, but like, that's my family, I've never seen never seen my, my people." I kinda like, people pronounced proscuitto the way my family did whatever. But I saw, like, I saw it. And, and they were very much about like, you know, we've got each other's backs. And we, and that's because they were reacting to coming and being like a bit of a diaspora in creating their community of like us versus them. And I think that folks who haven't been othered by society, maybe haven't had to rely on community as much like they, it's been a bit more optional for them. It but it doesn't mean it's not helpful or that they aren't drawn to it or desire it. And, and so I think you see it coming about and things like Men's Rights Associations, or whatever, where it's all about, like, misogyny, but like, that's the thing that, you know, people need to connect on something. And if that's the only thing that they feel able to connect on, then that's what's gonna happen.
GG Renee Hill:Yeah, I struggle with absolute. So when I hear that statement, I remember you mentioning that to me and reflecting on that, you know, white people don't know what community is, I struggle with that because it's this sort of broad absolute statement, that doesn't ring true. I can imagine and allow my mind to go to where someone might get a sweeping generalization like that from I understand what you're saying about just those of us who have been in the minority or have been othered people have been separate from maybe their place of origin, have a more natural concept of it, and history of it. But we're human, we're all human, and we're all wired for connection.
Erica D'Eramo:Yeah.
GG Renee Hill:So I think race doesn't really have anything to do with that. I just think that it's more about, like you said, those of us who have needed to cling to each other to survive, and, you know, for for generations, right, going back, have a more ingrained reliance on community. But like you said, and that's where it does get really complicated as like, we get into communities that are built on hate and that are built on divisiveness, and that are built on fear. That's where I think that sometimes people will get these, you know, make these statements like what you know, they don't know what community is or they don't you know, that's that's a misuse of community and all of that. Yeah, I mean, I get that, I get that but it comes still coming from that human need for connection. belonging. And, yeah, and it gets warped by fear and hate and all of these other Are things so if any individual would sit and think about, you know, their life and where they come from, everyone has a need for community and has can identify communities that they've been a part of. And I feel like we need each other for survival, which is why it's so heartbreaking for me to live in a world where people are using the power of community to to destruct instead of to build and connect. It's just heartbreaking, because that's not what, you know, that's not what it should be used for. So,
Erica D'Eramo:Yeah, I do like I, I should probably also say that, just because I think it's been said, it's been used negatively by certain people and groups, I'm not comparing by any means, like my growing up in an Italian household or whatever is like being similar to most marginalized identities. But I was able to reflect on that and had to separate, painfully in some ways, when I realized that I was queer, right like that. Those two identities were in conflict. And those two communities were in conflict at the time were somewhat in conflict, the whole like Roman Catholic, Italian upbringing, it was kind of all tied together. And so I think that there's something interesting too, around. As far as I can tell, all the communities that I am involved in will never tell me I cannot be a part of another community, right like that. That's almost like a red flag. For me that's like, you get too much of that. And I think there's what we call a cult, but which is also probably community, right? Like it's tapping, how are cults successful, they tap into exactly that, right? Like we see you, we value your identity, You are safe here, you are not safe with anyone else, stick with us, and you'll be safe. But now my my all of my communities celebrate you being a part of other communities that maybe they don't relate to, right, like there's not overlap amongst all of the different, quote unquote, communities that I have.
GG Renee Hill:Yes, that's a huge red flag. Right, when you know, that this might not be what you thought it was, if that's a requirement, for sure.
Erica D'Eramo:Yeah, I suppose. And, you know, I recognize that what works for me and my boundaries, and my red flags are not the same as for other people. And so for some folks, they might really need and want that very tight, very restrictive, kind of those boundaries. And that might provide a level of safety, or psychological safety, physical safety, economic safety that they need. So not saying it's bad, it is a red flag for me.
GG Renee Hill:Right. Right.
Erica D'Eramo:I guess?
GG Renee Hill:I understand the need to clarify that I think it's like we talk about in our, in our sessions in our community is like that idea of curiosity, and everybody having their own path, right. And I'm just so fascinated with the human experience. And it's so different for everyone. And so, again, like absolutes, and generalizations, even though I'm human, and I make them myself, and then catch myself, right, like, oh, wait, actually, like you just said, like, that might be for me, that's a red flag. But for someone else, depending on their story and their path, that might not be you know, so I would be so curious to hear more about, like, how that works for them. Right? If so, it's interesting to get into those nuances. During the pandemic, my week, I spent a lot of time watching these YouTube videos with my daughters. And I can't remember they were like little social experiment experiments that I can't I wish I could remember the name of the channel, whatever that was, that was putting them on, but they would have different groups, right. And it would be like maybe a group of groups that are contentious, right? So it could be a group that believes different beliefs may be a group of Christians, and then a group of Muslims or something or a group of Jews. And they would have them sit in community and just talk about their beliefs and we would watch and they're always different types of groups from different backgrounds and walks of life and we would sit and listen to them calmly, and respectfully just discussed their different beliefs and it was fascinating. I absolutely loved it. I watched every, every time every time we could find a new one, we would watch it and I just really value that type of open respect, even though I some of the groups I very blatantly disagreed with, I still was able to respect, I think the way that they were able to share their stories and their beliefs and it not be ugly. And, you know, people, there was no violence, there was no, you know, and I mean, violence in the big sense of we're not just physical violence, but there was like, no verbal violence or any of that. So I guess I'm just an idealist in that way. I just wish the world could be that way that we could have our different beliefs that we could have our different perspectives and ways of living and coexist with each other, with respect and with love, right.
Erica D'Eramo:I mean, I even you talking about that reminds me of I there was some commercial, I don't even remember what it was for. It was probably around a similar time period? Well, no, I think it was around 2016, this commercial came out. And I know that because I used this as, like, I replicated it for an icebreaker session to show different dimensions of diversity in a way but also different ways that we connect with each other. And they had this like, really diverse group of people, but they were in clusters, right? Like, some biker folks with like, their arms crossed, like an all tough and I think it was a Scandinavian country that it was out of, and then that they would ask like, Okay, so step into the circle, sort of, or like, step forward, if you were the class clown, right, like, and people from all different groups would step forward. And it was like, you know, step forward, if you have caretaking responsibilities for a loved one, right, like things that are so human that we often don't really have as part of our like, external identity that we sort of put wear a flag for. And yet they are what connect us as humans so much. And yet, like, there's probably no, you know, Meetup group for like, former class clowns. I don't have like a girl scout badge for XYZ like doing caretaking stuff. But it connects us as humans. So yeah, I need to go find that commercial and rewatch it, it would just like really made me so emotional.
GG Renee Hill:Yes, I love that. Because you're right, we don't wear that as something that you can openly necessarily see. And yet, it's what connects us. All as human regardless of what groups you belong to what color your skin is, what who you choose what religion you choose to, or not choose to be a part of. And but yet, there's so much division, just based on what people do see, and the stereotypes and the way they classify you just based on the way you present. And I see it within my own family, I see it all the time. And I like, cringe at it, like I have people in my family that are kind of like, you know, will say like that they don't like white people. Though, just broadly, just in general, you just don't. And I just I have a hard time, hard...
Erica D'Eramo:I mean, GG have they met me, have they met me? I'm the ultimate people pleaser, I mean...
GG Renee Hill:Or, you know, they're just sweeping, you know, generalizations or from the religious background that I come from. Like, if you don't, if that certainty, if you don't believe this thing right here the way I believe it, then you are going to burn in hell for eternity. Right? Or you are doomed or you your life won't be blessed and all of these things and having people tell me that Oh, because I choose to I remember I had a friend tell me that because I choose choose not to be married, that my relationship would not be blessed, right? You know, anyway, so not to go off on a tangent about that. But just this idea of certainty in one way of thinking and all of those things that go against sort of this need for seeing through all of our different ways that we process life and the world and the way we get through seeing through all that just seeing humanity. And then we're each human beings that have the same instinctive need to be loved, to be seen, to take care of our children or the people that you know that we care about. How to feed ourselves. Like all of those basic things, like, that's a oneness and a unity that we all have that gets forgotten about, because of all of these, the smoke and mirrors and these skin bags that we wear.
Erica D'Eramo:I mean, it's a reaction too, right? Like, I feel like, Oh, well, it does so much damage, I feel some compassion for the person who says like, I don't like white people, because that is a reaction to past harms to, to fear. And I'm not condoning it, because I don't think it's the help. I don't think it's a healthy way to approach it. But like I, I can find some compassion for it and understanding. And that's where like, the curiosity comes in again, like, Okay, where, where, where does that come from? Because these are all reactions sort of scared to this, like false scarcity. And that identity threat can be very powerful. If you're trying to control a group of people by setting up that, like, we are inside this fence. Anyone else outside the fence is a threat. And it's right to our identity. So it's interesting to tie it back to community. I think maybe that is one of the kind of pillars around which communities I do want to be a part of, and that they are not sitting, they are not exclusively based on not on like other others, like us versus that right. Or, like somebody I know. I forgot. Some talking head, I think was saying like, Okay, I'm probably an atheist, but I don't really identify with that word, because it's like a lack of, nope, like non golfers are not creating an identity around not playing golf. Okay, turning off too much versus like just an absence of golf is not like an identity in and of itself. So anyways, yeah. Right. I mean, the community that you've built really is around, like what we are passionate about, and not around who we are not, and who is not welcome and who is right, there's not really gatekeeping.
GG Renee Hill:Right, right. And embracing each other's differences, embracing curiosity, embracing the different ways that we all be exposed our, excuse me, your lived experiences that have brought us to this place, like you said, in our community, it's about that reflection, and the storytelling that sort of just brings us all together. So even as I say, you know, Okay, so I have people in my life who are more narrow minded, or who, you know, think a certain way, I, from my vantage point in the way that I've found healing in my life, is to invite them in,"well tell me more about that," like, you know, more about that story that brings you to that place, because that's where, again, similar to the commercial, you mentioned, that you have a story that brought you to that to make that statement or to feel that way. And I would love to hear I would love to hear it. Right? I would love to hear that story. And talk about it, because you're valid in you know, in your feelings, right? So it's not to invalidate anybody's feelings, even though someone that I disagree with or can't relate to at all, right. I'm still curious about their story, you know, and how they got to be that way. So, yeah, that's, that's sort of like the center of, I guess the community that I've built is the storytelling and what we can learn about each other, what we can learn about ourselves, and what we can offer based based on that, and how, you know, perhaps Perhaps, our limitations, our that sense of scarcity, you mentioned how it can be brought in a little bit just just through that storytelling and finding that commonality, hey, here's someone that I thought I couldn't relate to at all, I had nothing in common with no common ground, automatically just had sort of a for them. I just taste or whatever, and hearing their story, I'm understanding them or finding a connection, finding something universal with them that I didn't know just based on the surface level. So that's why I think the story is telling us such a such a powerful tool for building community and sustaining it and you know, just the power of finding the power in your power of recognizing your own story, and how that speaks to the way you show up in the world. Right. So no matter what communities you identify with, like I think that that tool is such an important element to any community.
Erica D'Eramo:I mean, it's a very effective way to bring groups of people together quickly. Having people be vulnerable. And putting them through hardship together is another bonding method. And we've seen it used for good and used for harm, right? Like that's, for better or worse, like, sororities and fraternities do initiation rates, like, you can see it in some, I guess cults, right, like, give us your views against you. And so maybe that's like for folks who are looking to find community and have some reservations, like just thinking through and witnessing how does the community holds people and treat their vulnerability when they have it? Because how, how the writing group treats vulnerability makes me feel incredibly safe, right, like I'm in, it's displayed, and, and modeled consistently and held as a core value. And so I think that that might be, you know, if people are thinking to that hearing this episode, and thinking, like, I need more community, you know, like, testing it out, how is vulnerability handled?
GG Renee Hill:Yes, yes. Yeah.
Erica D'Eramo:Because it is kind of needed. If you're gonna rely on each other, you sort of need to know that everybody has a stake in the game. Right? I guess that's, that's a piece of it?
GG Renee Hill:That's part of it. Right? This that, given take that offering? And how is it treated? That's so true. And showing, you know, obviously, within different groups, you can do different little, not tests, but you know, just dip your toe in to find those kinds of things out before you completely open up in a group, right? Because everyone isn't worthy, necessarily. Right? That's Brene Browns words of, of hearing your story, or for you feeling safe there, and, particularly if it's things that, you know, you're still healing, or that you're still working through, and you need that safety, a quote of hers that I share often is that, you know, it's safest to share when you don't have any unmet needs relating to that sharing, right? Like, if you are, hey, I have this story that I want to share with this group of young people to let them know they're not alone. And all of that you're, I like to think that if you're speaking broadly to a group that you can't necessarily control, who's out there who's hearing you, you're in a place where you feel safe within yourself, right? To do that, but when we talk about like a community you've chosen, that's like where, you know, there is some discernment that's necessary. And, you know, what does that look like? I know for me, when it comes to building community, I tried to, I've tried to create a system for lack of a better word where people can get acclimated gradually, I offer, like my monthly free workshop, like, Hey, if you're curious, you can come in, dip your toe in here, and just kind of see how we roll. This feels like a good place for you. You know, so it's like, you don't have to just dive right into the deep end, you can dip your toe in slowly and see how you feel about it. And I would recommend that for any type of community to check it out, feel it out, see how you see that you do feel safe, if they if it if it's what it presents itself to be right. Notice where you do feel uncomfortable, where you go against the grain? How was that treated? Right? If you do have some quirks or different perspectives that you're bringing to this group, that doesn't necessarily mean you don't belong there. But how is it? How are your differences treated there? So there's, you know, it's a very intentional thing, and it's not like, as I mentioned earlier, sometimes we think we want to be a part of a community, like we think we do, because there are certain things that draw us to you see common commonality or maybe it's an aspirational thing, you want to be like these people or whatever, but then when you get in there, you realize that it's not as you know, as great as you thought. I remember doing a workshop for a group of moms in a certain region. I guess I can say it. So it was it was these LA moms, and it was for a group of Black women. And I remember being so excited to do this workshop, because I was like, Oh, I love speaking to mothers. I love speaking to Black women. And these are my people. This is going to be easy. There's going to be great. It's going to be a love fest going to be wonderful. And it was one of The coldest workshops I've ever done, they were so cold. I was so surprised because I thought like, Oh, I'm probably gonna make some great connections there and, you know, maybe build some relationships beyond the, you know, that experience. It was maybe it was a journaling workshop, I remember was a few years ago. And I remember being so shocked that it just wasn't what I thought it was going to be. And so that's Okay, you know, I'm still still kind of on the journey of learning. That things aren't always what they seem. And to go in with an open heart. That's all you can do, right? To go in with your intention clear of what you're bringing, and, and see what you get back and see how you know, to see how that goes. But yeah, you can't always assume that you'll find your people where you think you will.
Erica D'Eramo:Yeah, I mean, when you were talking about being able to speak from a place where like, your needs have already been met versus not, I think, in dipping your toe into these communities like we are going, when you're when you're going out there, everybody else has their own wounds, and they are in different stages of healing from as well. And so I feel like when vulnerability gets weaponized, it's either for consolidation of power, or it's because there is somebody else's unmet need or wound that's being reflected back. Right. Like it's a defense mechanism.
GG Renee Hill:Yes.
Erica D'Eramo:So yeah, I mean, you don't know. It doesn't make it Okay. And it doesn't mean that like, we need to put up with that. But we don't know when we go into different communities, what stage they're in. And how, how well, their needs are being met. So yeah, I agree with you're kind of like, proceed optimistically. And with awareness.
GG Renee Hill:Yes, yes. And it just like takes time to learn that to not take it personally. Right, particularly if you are, like, I'm a highly sensitive person. I had to learn to not isolate myself, when I felt that I had been rejected or didn't fit in here, or this didn't work out, or that didn't work out. To not take it personally at all. I mean, that's still something
Erica D'Eramo:Yeah, I mean, as sometimes I think about my that I have to consciously remember. But sometimes your initial reaction is to feel a little hurt. But remembering that it's a natural part of finding community is that just like anything else, when we talk about creative work, you're going to get rejections, right communities, that same kind of weird thing where you should expect that and almost like, appreciate that it's a redirection for you. And that, that it's not only not personal, it's, it's against you, it's like you said, each group, whether it's the leadership, or the people in the group, they have their own stories in their own wounds, and their own their, there's their own journey that they're on and it just might not be a fit for you. But every time you go through that experience, you learn a little bit more about yourself and what you do want and what your needs are and what you're looking for. And all it does is help you to be more aware going forward. So it's all worth it, I think. introversion, and to what extent its inherent and was natural, and to what extent it's either been amplified or exacerbated or, or is the result of my ADHD and my like, too-muchedness, right, like throughout a lot of my life, I was like, just too much just too much, or didn't know the right thing to say and was like the awkward girl and just all the things and that can be exhausting when you're trying to constantly self regulate self censor, and like on this constant feedback loop about like reading the social cues in the room and is that girl not gonna like me, and then like you have a couple of traumatic experiences where those girls do weaponize it against you and all of a sudden no one in the school will talk to you and and so, I wonder sometimes like is my introversion just like, I'm exhausted by that? I can't deal with that. Like, so I'm just gonna hang out by myself because whatever. But then you meet a couple other ugly ducklings and you're like, Oh, right. We're frickin swans, man. Like, we're the swans and it's Okay, whatever. Not that swans are better than ducks, swans, can be mean. I know. Ducks can be nice. It's it is what it is. Geese. Also very can be very mean. But I think like it's about just like finding the group where you don't need to be doing that. You don't need to be self censoring. You don't need to be self critical. And there's there's one member of our writing group that I think I said one time like I know I'm not everybody's cup of tea, right like I maybe I'm more like fish sauce. Like some people love me, some people don't. And they remind me pretty regularly like, "You're my cup of tea Erica," and I just feel so. I don't know seen.
GG Renee Hill:Yes.
Erica D'Eramo:Yeah. Yeah.
GG Renee Hill:Absolutely.
Erica D'Eramo:I mean, on that note, what are some of your like key takeaways that you think for folks listening and who are maybe intrigued about community? What are some of the key takeaways that you you want? Listeners,
GG Renee Hill:I think a great place to start, if someone is listening to this and thinking about the communities that they already have in their lives and seeing some gaps where there are parts of themselves that are not being expressed through that lens of community is to think about what those those areas are, whether it's your creative expression, maybe some aspect of your culture, right, that you want to be more ingrained in, start there, think about what's missing for you, in terms of community, what aspects of community, what are some of the benefits that you're looking for, you know, what are the values of, of that you want to share with this community? So from from the community that Erica and I are speaking of, it's like, Okay, creative expression, curiosity, storytelling, these are shared values, right? Compassion, kindness, vulnerability, these are shared values that we find are celebrated and enriched in this community, and that we're looking for, to be able to have a place where we can be weird, and we can be quirky. And, and all of these things and, and it is seen and heard with openness. What are those things for you? What are you lacking right now, perhaps, that are seeking expression and start there and brainstorming and maybe having even conversations with someone that you trust that you can talk to about this, to think about how you can fill that, that hole in your life. And it takes it's really, even before that starts with that self honesty, I think, because sometimes these things are sitting in our subconscious, and we're not quite aware of them, they might be in our shadow. And that can take some stillness, some self reflection of some solitude to really think about that and be honest with yourself about what's missing. And then beyond that, whenever you do start to think about putting yourself out there, it's remembering what we mentioned about it being a process of exploration, and to not take it too personally, if you do experiment with this group, and it's not the right fit, that's Okay, keep going. And keep just naturally putting yourself in those spaces and environments for that connection. And if you are looking for creative connection, I'm a big advocate for going to events, whether that's virtually or in person going to events where, if you love books, go to book readings, go to bookstores and libraries and bookish events, right, just go put yourself in those spaces. And if you're not used to it, it can be weird and awkward at first, recognize that discomfort, awkwardness, all of that is part of and that just because you're looking for your people, doesn't mean you won't feel awkward and kind of like, the odd man out at first, right? And that that's part of this whole thing. And it's Okay, it's a pathway to, to getting to a place where suddenly suddenly you're like, I feel like I can, yes, I still feel awkward, but I feel like I can be awkward here. And it's Okay. Right. And I can be myself and I can talk through it. And so just look for those environments. And I find that as you do that life meets you there like life will kind of right like meet you, you're you where your intentions are and how you show up and will give you that next breadcrumb like Okay, well, maybe this didn't work, but I'm going to try this or I'm going to go here, I'm going to do this. And it's so worthwhile and it's so worth the discomfort. It's so worth the initial you know, as adults, we just want to be certain about everything, we just kind of have our routines and our things that we're used to we're comfortable with and there's this risk involved with going outside of that and we're like do I want to shake up my life in this way, it's so worth it and it will benefit the all the other parts of your life as well. Because you will find a confidence and a ability to like have that muscle of just being more in your authentic self through that community and that group that will carry over into because I find that like having a strong community strong creative community has benefited my entire life where I'm like if I can be accepted and loved and seen and valued in this space for exactly the weird, quirky, imperfect person that I am, then I demand that everywhere now. And if I can't, then it's not for me. And that really came from finding those communities in those spaces and deciding that that's, you know, how I want to operate. Because so many of us feel like, we have to alter ourselves, you know, I'm not saying that that ever completely goes away, but community and in finding those holes in those gaps where you're seeking that can help to smooth that out.
Erica D'Eramo:Yeah. I always find it interesting during your kind of open your monthly open workshops, where we kind of, we write to the prompts, how many folks will come and sort of say like, oh, yeah, I was not planning to share today, I just wanted to like, check it out and see, and then ended up sharing, because by the end, it's like, we've all modelled, yes, sharing whatever the heck came out on the page, and not worrying about it and whatever. It's always sort of like, I'm cheering in the background, because I'm like, Yeah, you just did the uncomfortable thing. And we held you, right, like we helped you and clapped. And and it's also so affirming for everyone else in the community to to see that as well. Because, you know, it's a good reminder to just not let perfection be the enemy of the good. But anyways, I digress, I think your your takeaways are spot on. And so if anyone did want to engage with your material more, or maybe check out your community, or your books, where you are offerings, what should they do,
GG Renee Hill:They would go to allthemanylayers.com, where they could find my books that I've published, workshops that I have coming up, and the different community offerings that I have, I have a substack, which is also available, probably the simplest way to get to it would be to go through my website and go to coaching and see where you can connect to my substack, which is another way to dip your toe into just that first step when you ask what are some key takeaways. And I said that like self honesty, and that reflection, I put out a weekly reflection exercise, right, that is intended to connect you with your story and the things that are the themes and patterns that you see in your life, which is a great way to identify those values, and those shared values that you might have with a group. I also am on Instagram at@ggreneewrites, that's g g r e n e e w r i t e s. And yeah, those are probably the simplest ways to see what I have out there that might be supportive of your process and your journey,
Erica D'Eramo:I highly recommend checking out the website and also the the Instagram follow as well, because GG shares writing prompts, which are a part of that kind of free offering that she does once a month where people come and just write to whatever is calling to them. But you can do that on your own as well. And so that's a great free resource that you do. And it also gives a preview for what folks can expect if they show up to that. That free monthly session, which is always a lot of fun. There's always like crazy, fun stuff that comes out of it. You'd give great writing prompts.
GG Renee Hill:Thank you. And that's on the first Friday of each month.
Erica D'Eramo:Yep, good reminder, first Friday of each month. So Well, thank you so much, GG, for coming on and talking about this topic that's pretty close to my heart and sharing your wisdom with us. I really appreciate it.
GG Renee Hill:Thank you for having me. It's been great.
Erica D'Eramo:And for anyone listening who is looking for any of those links, we will include them in the show notes and in the blog posts that will accompany this episode, and you can also find the transcript if you're looking for that as well. So that's all on twopiersconsulting.com and we look forward to seeing you next episode.
